Buy Michele's book! https://deployempathy.com/

Michele Hansen  0:00 
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Colleen Schnettler  0:51  
So Michele, how are things going with the book? 

Michele Hansen  0:55  
They're going? Um, so I checked the numbers the other day and between the PDF and the paperback and Kindle editions, sold 210 copies so far. Wow.

Colleen Schnettler  1:09  
Don't most books don't most self published books only sell 250 copies over their lifetime.

Michele Hansen  1:16  
So Miss, like, I happened to like, slack that the other day.

Colleen Schnettler  1:22  
Like you set me up for that one. So we could talk about how awesome you are?

Michele Hansen  1:26  
Yeah, I was actually kind of like, I was like, okay, you know, that's good. Like, because I think I kind of went into this. And it was like, worst case scenario, like, everybody on the newsletter list buys it. Right. Like because other people are interested in what I'm saying. So that adds about like, 300 people on that list. So I was like, okay, like, you know, that's that's good. That's solid. And then yeah, and then I was, someone kind of prompted me to like they were they were like, that's really good. And I was like present. And it turns out the average self published book only sells like 250 copies total lifetime. And then the average published book, like publisher published book sells 3000 copies, two to 300 of which would be in its first year. Okay, wow. Consider that we're a month into this. I guess. It's pretty good.

Colleen Schnettler  2:16  
Yeah, you're already you're already killing that record. That's amazing.

Michele Hansen  2:22  
And if anything, is, I feel like I haven't really, like done anything. Um, I mean, no, I feel like I you know, I've been tweeting about it probably incessantly. And I sent out a couple of newsletters where I mentioned that. I think you challenged me to be on what like

Colleen Schnettler  2:39  
1020 I feel like it was 20

Michele Hansen  2:41  
podcast. Oh, I was hoping it was 10. But I think so I just, I've I've recorded two so far. None of them are okay yet. But which ones have you done? So I've done two so far. I have another one. I have two more on the calendar. Oh, okay. And then I was just someone was just like, dming me this morning about being on there's and there's one that I like I need to do my own recording. Like there's some things in the hopper, like, basically, when I like dm with people about this, then I like I've been emailing myself, the link to the DMS because I always lose my DMS and can't ever find anything. So I email it to myself with the link to the DMS and then I've been tagging them as podcast. And then I okay folder in my email. So it's about like, I have a list of like 10 ish so far.

Colleen Schnettler  3:36  
That's great tennis a lot. Michelle, good for you.

Michele Hansen  3:39  
So I feel like I haven't really started to promote it. Yeah. So you were saying the other day? How? Like you were trying to get some content out? And how you're, like struggling to get it out for like three months. Yeah. And one of our mutual friends said, Colleen, like, get it together. Michelle just published a whole book in five months.

Colleen Schnettler  4:02  
That's literally what happened. It was hilarious. We were chatting. And I was complaining. I don't know if complaining is the right word, you know, lamenting the fact that I was struggling to write a piece of content, he very tactfully pointed out that you managed to write an entire book. Like I think you can write a piece of content. But on

Michele Hansen  4:21  
that note at like, I think the rate at which I got the book out was I think it was so fast because first of all, I had all of it in my head like and it was just a matter of like I need to go find the reference for this thing. It's not like I needed to go find new references and find like I didn't really have to find any new content for it. But the other thing is, is I think I was kind of in a like hyper focus black hole but like a very extended one for like five months where basically all of my free time was getting spent on this and It's kind of I know like, last night, all of a sudden, I felt exhausted, like and not like physically exhausted. But I was like, Oh my god, like I'm, I'm, I'm tired, like I have been running full tilt at this. And now I'm tired. And it was, I mean, it's good timing right. So because out but like it was weird I had this moment where I was like, you know i, one of my favorite things to do is just like, while I'm eating lunch or whatever, just to like sit down with the New Yorker. And I usually read it. As soon as I get it, I even get it shipped overseas. And I have a stack of them a foot high still in the packaging that I have not read. And I like had this and I looked at it. And I was like, that's not like me, like that's really unlike me to hate. And I have like just like a stack of books I really wanted to read. And I haven't read a not a fiction book in like six months. I was like, This is all very unlike me, like and I was like, I think I'm like really close to getting burned out actually like, I'm like, I just didn't realize how fast I was going. I think my might sound kind of weird. But But yeah, I just I didn't realize it. And then so on. And all of a sudden last night, I was like, I'm exhausted. Oh my gosh, I'm yeah. And so I don't think the pace at which I wrote the book. I don't think it should be used as the standard. Because I don't think it was very healthy. And also, I already had all of it in my head. And I just

Colleen Schnettler  6:24  
need so it was interesting to get it out. While you were saying that I was thinking about the episode you did with marine. And you both talked about how you had these tendencies to go into something Full Tilt, with no breaks. And I remember there was one part where you talked about like, someone would be talking to you like maybe your husband, and you'd be still be thinking about your book in your head. Yeah. And, and so that's really interesting. So for you it's like, the way it seems to be like this has been like such a sprint for you. And now your body's just like, Huh, like, what do they call it adrenaline fatigue, where your body's just like, Whoa, yep. So do you feel? I mean, how are you feeling about it? Now? Do you want to take a break from it? Do you just want to sleep for a month? Like, where's your headspace?

Michele Hansen  7:08  
I'm a parent. So I can't sleep for a month. Yes, not not allowed. I mean, so I like going into this like in June, I was kind of like, oh, and I'll you know, I'll do the audio book in the fall. Like when school starts again, like I have a little more time like, well, we'll do that in the fall. And now I think with everything coming out, I've been like, Oh, I need to, like start recording that because like, I think it's this combination of like, genuinely enjoying that. And also getting a lot of positive reinforcement about it and just like failing to like, check in with myself of like, Am I taking care of myself? Am I doing the things that like, helped me feel like me and kind of calm me down on a daily basis? And the answer to that was, like, basically no, like, I realized I haven't even been on the trampoline in like two weeks. And I was like, What is going on? Like, and I just felt stressed like, constantly and I was like, Where is this feeling coming from? And I think I've been feeling like, Oh my god, where am I gonna get this time to like, record the audio book, like I keep not like, you know, just with, you know, child being home and lack of summer camps. And like, just, it's just kind of been sort of chaotic, and I can't find that time. And I was like, but I don't have to get it out. Like one of the reasons why I published this. Myself, like did self publishing was so I didn't have a publisher breathing down my neck saying, Okay, now you need to get this out, you need to go record this this year, you need to, you know, go give these talks or whatever, or do these interviews, like I purposefully intentionally did not do that. Like, I could have gone through the whole publisher rigmarole if I wanted to. Like, I'm sure if I had pitched it, you know, well enough, like I could have gotten someone to publish it. But I chose not to do that. Because I wanted to do it at my own pace and on my own terms, and because I am not in this to sell books. I'm just, you know, in it to help people. Yeah, and well, and that sounds alignment of incentives. And but like I think I lost track of that.

Colleen Schnettler  9:13  
Yeah, yeah. Do you think so? I have a question for you. And this again, is based on what I heard you and Marie talking about. Could you have done it at a pace that enabled you to care for yourself and would have been a little bit slower?

Michele Hansen  9:28  
I don't know.

Colleen Schnettler  9:31  
Like I just wondering it though, that sounded like that's your that's kind of the way you work like you get sued. Yeah, is and you're all in bursty but to your own health detriment right and your own kind of like detriment a recurring problem. Right. That's what I was. Yeah,

Michele Hansen  9:48  
I mean, cuz I think and I think this like, I don't know, I I always want to be careful when I'm talking about ADHD things because it's like, is this a me thing? Or is it an ADHD thing and like in recent years learned that a lot of Things that I thought were me things are actually ADHD things, but I'm not an expert in it. So I don't know. I think the thing about it is, when I do get focused on something, I'm so scared of that focus going away, that it like builds this kind of anxiety of like, Oh my God, if I don't get this out, it's never gonna get it's never happening, like, I'm gonna like, it's like, I have to take advantage of this focus while I have it. Because it just feels like this scarce resource that like might slip away at any moment. I don't know if that makes sense.

Colleen Schnettler  10:29  
It does. So what I'm trying to lead into with this, this line of questioning is, when you start recording the podcast, are you again, going to be spun up into a don't sleep? Don't read a book, work every night? I mean, just what you know, of yourself, like, do you think that you're going to do that, again?

Michele Hansen  10:49  
I think I need to not do that. And writing I need to like I maybe I should like dedicate a day where it's like, I'm only doing these recordings on this day. Because also, you know, it requires like, it sort of basically requires the house to be quiet and like, you know, so when I'm recording even recording this podcast, like Mathias can't be in the office, and, you know, Nigel, or dog, he needs to not be in the room. And so like he kind of needs like, take them like so it does require a little bit of coordination for us. So I think I need to maybe just do it like one a day, like, have like, one day a week where I'm doing it. And also I can't release like 10 chapters in a week because nobody would have time to listen to that. I think I'm sort of mentally thinking like three for the, for the private podcast for the book. So I think I need I need to like three a week.

Colleen Schnettler  11:43  
Yeah, no, one a week, one a week. But if I did want

Michele Hansen  11:47  
to well, if there's like 50 something chapters in the book, it's gonna take a whole year? I don't know. I don't know, I guess.

Colleen Schnettler  11:54  
I'm just saying we'll see. Let's see. Let me know what

Michele Hansen  11:56  
you think people like if you are interested in the private podcast of my book, that was basically like, just get it all get compiled up and turned into the audio book. So I'm doing a pre sale for it. If you would want to once a week or three times a week or twice a week, or if you don't mind it being a whole year tweeted me, let me know.

Colleen Schnettler  12:15  
I think it depends on how long it takes you to read a chapter. I'm big on like 20 to 35 minute podcasts. That's probably two chapters. Yeah. So yeah, that's probably two or three chapters.

Michele Hansen  12:25  
I don't I don't remember I did the I did a demo of the first chapter. And I think it was like 1520 minutes.

Colleen Schnettler  12:31  
So okay. Yeah, I think that's that's probably good. About 30 minutes. So let's circle back to what, sorry, circle back. That's so quarter. And I know right? I'm so I can talk corporate like you were Lilly on that thing. synergy. So, but seriously, that let's circle back to what you were saying you were originally thinking you were going to do it in the fall. So and we kind of got off topic. So are you now saying you want to push it even more? No, I

Michele Hansen  13:00  
think I'm gonna go back that I was basically originally Yeah, pull it forward. Right. And that's just not going to happen. Like, and I need and I don't think there's a need for myself. Yeah. Like, I'm just I am the one putting the stress on myself

Colleen Schnettler  13:14  
for no reason. Yeah. Yeah, I totally think that is a good move, especially since this is a marathon, right? Not a sprint. And you already have tons of momentum. And your book is just selling itself. Like, it's really cool. Michelle,

Michele Hansen  13:28  
I don't know if it's selling itself like it's I've mostly sold it to like people who know me or you know, some so

Colleen Schnettler  13:34  
I'm while I was reading it at the part about stripe, all I could think was like Michelle should do a deal with stripe where they like buy 20,000 copies of the book and give it to like all the stripe employees. I don't know how many employees, they probably right. If you're interested in that, let me know. Because you reference them a lot like the way they try to, you know, facilitate and work with their customers. And I was like, Oh my gosh, you should just sell it to stripe Corp. Actually, I

Michele Hansen  14:01  
did. I did do like a portfolio wide deal with con company fund, formerly earnest capital where they basically bought it and yeah, they just bought an unlimited license to share it with all of their portfolio companies. Nice. Yeah.

Colleen Schnettler  14:16  
How did you figure out? I don't I don't know, if you want to share the amount you sold that for? If not, it's fine. But how did you even figure out how to price an unlimited license?

Michele Hansen  14:25  
I was basically Okay, what's the price of my book times? The number of companies they have? And then let's just give them a nice discount on that. And it's gonna Yes, version two. It's not the physical copy, which would be a little. I mean, I guess I could do that.

Colleen Schnettler  14:42  
Awesome. Well, it sounds like the book stuff is going great. And I'm glad that you, you have been, you know, reflective enough to see what it has done to you. Yeah, sounds terrible, but like to kind of see where it's put you and how you've stopped caring for yourself. So you can walk that back before you're totally burned out and you know, you have to hide In your raspberry bushes.

Unknown Speaker  15:02  
I do love

Colleen Schnettler  15:02  
By the way, I'm so I'm so jealous. You have raspberry bushes, raspberry bushes,

Michele Hansen  15:07  
they are an absolute delight, like I was out there earlier and just like there's the bees are just being busy bees and just not stinging me yet, you know, but like just going around and then it's like treasure hunting because raspberries are just like, they're just these like sneaky little things that like hide behind the leaves anyway, if you want if you want to see some farmed we use Yeah. Yeah, so I need to I need I think I need to schedule it. Cuz I think again, that's sort of an ADHD thing is like, I do really well with structure. And I don't do well with internally provided structure like that, like because I can just move my own deadlines. Like, you know, I mean, the reason why I got the book out so fast actually, is because I was like, I need to get this out before I have to start Danish classes before I'm vaccinated, and originally the Danish vaccine calendar so that people in our age group would not be vaccinated until September. So i or i kept moving, but it was August to September. And so I was like, Okay, I need to get it out by August. And then actually, like, we were able to get vaccinated in May. But anyway, and then I was like, Okay, and then I need to start Danish lessons. And I'm gonna be starting Danish lessons in the fall. And so like that was that like, deadline that I had to get it out? Because once I start doing that, like six hours a week, like, I'm not gonna, like, that's where my free time is gonna go. So I, you know, I think your own content project, it doesn't have a like big looming deadline like that in front of it. And sometimes I need things to be urgent in order to get them done.

Colleen Schnettler  16:48  
Did we talk about that last week, or two weeks ago, I told you about that podcast, urgent versus it was urgent versus important. And it was from some Eisenhower came up with it. I don't know if Eisenhower came up with it. But I think they used it in context of Eisenhower, I have to look up the podcast, but it was so good. It was just about the psychology behind something that's urgent versus something that's important. And I was like, Yes, I need to make it urgent, like, and how do you make your own deadlines? urgent, right? Like, how do you because you're right, if you can just move them like you have to do something? Oh, this could be like a whole nother thing. I mean, everyone's trying to figure this problem out, right? Like, how do you make your own things? You know, you should do health stuff, working out writing content pieces? How do you make them urgent? Yeah,

Michele Hansen  17:31  
I think you can also, you know, you can make them annoying, too, like, like, I've seen a bunch of people talking about going out and running every single day. And it's like, just run for 20 minutes every day, it doesn't matter how fast or how slow or if you do sprints, or whatever. But put your shoes on first thing in the morning, and don't take them off until you've done running. So basically until you like, if you get annoyed by having them on all the time, then you just have to go do your running, get it over with. Right, like, this is annoying. I should try that.

Colleen Schnettler  18:05  
Yeah, I think for me, the content stuff is. I mean, when Matt said that about how you wrote a book in three months, you know, and I couldn't, much nicer than that. But he was basically like, you haven't written a single piece of content. I it gave me pause, because I was like, you're right. Like, I am someone since I have been young, like hated English class, I love to read like, I'm a voracious reader. But I have never enjoyed writing like English papers. And I think with developer focus content, I have this mental block to start because I know it's going to take a long time. And it's going to take a long time. Because I am by long time, I don't mean five months, I mean, like a couple hours. And it's going to take a long time. Because when you write really in depth, the developer focus content, even though I already know these things, I you know, the ecosystem is always changing. So I'll have to go back and make sure this is still the best way to do it. And make sure that you know, I'm referencing all the right versions of Ruby and Rails and APA storage, and I get all the new stuff in and then you need screenshots and I don't know, it's just so it's this meant it will probably take me three hours. Like that doesn't sound hard when I say that to you, but man, I'm having a hard time blocking it out and just doing it would it be easier for you to record a video or a screen share of it and then make a transcript of that and then use the transcript to write the content? That's a good idea. Yeah, because then you get it out and because like I just do it Yes, I

Michele Hansen  19:35  
get it. You're like okay, I need to reference the right version of this and I need to figure that out before I release it, but like you don't actually have to like that's something that you could just edit later and like basically just make your documentation expanded version of this video and like, some people genuinely prefer watching videos to reading something. I am not one of those people, but I'm told they exist. And I mean, that could, it might make it easier for you to create it.

Colleen Schnettler  20:05  
That's a great idea. I need to just get it out. And I have this like, Oh, it's gonna be hard, I'm gonna have to spin up a new Rails app, not that it's hard to spin up a new Rails app, it literally takes five seconds, but it's just like, and then I'm like, oh, are my dependencies gonna be up to date and blah, blah, blah? I think that's a great idea. I think I'll just I'll just word screenshare. vomit something. And then at least I'll have the basic building blocks of Oh, my gosh, I have an idea. Yeah. So I have hired my sister. And I think we've talked about this before. The problem is she is not a developer. And so she cannot write me any content. But I could screenshare word mind dump. And then I could send it to her. And she could turn it into words. Yes. On a paper. Yes. That's a great idea. That's brilliant. It's brilliant. Michelle, we're going to do that next week, maybe? No, for real. Yeah. So that's, that's definitely something I want to do. That's a great idea. That's totally what I'm going to do.

Michele Hansen  21:07  
Speaking of things that you're going to do, so last week, we are talking about the spake decision you're trying to make. And I don't want to pressure you. But I'm just want to kind of like wondering, what's what's going on there? If you've thought about that, since?

Colleen Schnettler  21:22  
Yes, so I have decided to join this other startup that I mentioned. I am super excited. I can't talk about it too much yet, because there's just like, there's like lawyers involved. It's like a thing. And there's lawyers involved because there's real money involved. And there's three of us. So three co founders. I know, doesn't that just sound interesting. I mean, I have three children. And the thing about going from two children to three is you like, you know exponentially increase the number of relationships you have to manage, right? Like when you have two kids, you only have to manage one relationship. When you have three, you've got to manage all the different relationships between the three children. And so that's what I was thinking when I was like, oh, now there's three of us. But I know these guys really well. I've known them for years. They're good guys, I really believe in their product. But we are definitely at that phase. It's really interesting. Like we're at the lawyer phase. So we're lawyer, lawyer, bring out some of the details. So I can't talk about it too much, because nothing is finalized. Yet things could still change. But I'm really excited about it. It's gonna be really fun. Look at you

Michele Hansen  22:34  
moving to California and joining a startup. I know I'm so cliche. You're in San Diego, and it's like a indie thing. But you know what?

Colleen Schnettler  22:44  
It still feels a little cliche. Like, this is what you're supposed to do, man.

Michele Hansen  22:48  
Live in the California dream.

Colleen Schnettler  22:50  
Live in the California dream? Yeah, so I'm super excited. That's moving pretty quickly. So there's a lot of hopefully, in a couple weeks, I'll have an update on that. There's a lot of moving pieces, and there's a lot of work to be done. So it's gonna be an adventure. But I am, I am really excited to join their their team, because I am super pumped to have co founders. I have had people approached me before about becoming a co founder. And I just don't think it's something I would do with someone I don't know. Because there's so much involved in that relationship. And so I'm just like, super pumped to have people to talk to about, like, random nerdy stuff that no one else cares about. But us. That's fun. Yeah. So we'll see how it all how it all shakes out. But I think it's gonna be great. Obviously, I think it's gonna be great. And so I'm doing it. And I, you know, I

Michele Hansen  23:45  
like that you're kind of going in as an equal, like, you know, cuz, cuz you're the only rails person on the team. Right? Right. And they're coming from other, you know, places or worlds or whatnot. So you're bringing something unique to the table that they don't currently have. And and since you know them, well, like, you know, it will be a, what's not a marriage of equals, because there's three of you, but three, a union of Yeah. of equals.

Colleen Schnettler  24:23  
Yeah, and I felt that that was really important. When we talked about equity. I feel like for me to make two dues to commit the time and to do something like that, like, I've I, you know, I don't really want to work for anyone, like, I want to be an equal partner. So that that was that was definitely important to me.

Michele Hansen  24:43  
Mm hmm. It's pretty exciting. I it's hard that I kind of can't share too much more about it.

Colleen Schnettler  24:49  
Yeah, I think it's all gonna be fine. But like, I just want to be over that hump before I start talking details. Because if if something change, you know, sometimes when lawyers get involved, and you have To talk about these hard things like, things can get a little weird. I don't think they will. But you never know. And you add to what we were just saying about some of the challenges that you've had with simple file upload around. How do you price it and content and marketing it. And all of these things, like, there's a lot for one person to take on. And, like,

Michele Hansen  25:27  
I think you have been feeling the lack of a co founder.

Colleen Schnettler  25:31  
Oh, my gosh, Michelle. So after I made this deal, this just happened. My first thought was like, I should bring out a co founder for simple file upload, like co founders everywhere. Everyone needs to co founder. But seriously, so So obviously, so you know, I've been like, Okay, how am I gonna have time for simple file upload? And the thing about trying to everyone says, Oh, just hire like a contract developer like that. So easy. It's not like FYI, finding a good contract developer at my budget, which is, what, $1,000 a month to stay within my parameters of what I'm making. That's not, it's not really possible. Like, I feel like, it's really not something. I would love to hire someone to do all these things, but I'm just not there yet. So I don't know, I started toying with the idea. Okay. So if I don't have enough money to incentivize a really good developer to come join me, maybe I should just like, find myself a co founder for that. My getting crazy. Maybe I just need to take us take a beat and think about it. Like, I literally know who it would be. And I think he listens to this podcast, but I don't know if he knows.

Unknown Speaker  26:43  
You. I mean,

Michele Hansen  26:44  
and so now there's gonna be these listening, like, Is it me? Is it me? Oh, my gosh.

Colleen Schnettler  26:51  
I shouldn't have said that. Um, anyway, it's something I've thought of, as literally just thought of yesterday, I have never thought of before. But I don't know, there's possibilities here. I mean, I just man, I just feel like I cannot. I cannot move simple file upload forward. at this speed, I want it to move forward. And so I'm trying to be patient with myself. And the thing about SAS, it's still just, it's like, just making me money. Even though I'm doing nothing but responding to support requests. Like it's like magical money. Michelle, it's so cool. So maybe on a like, if you look at it from a business perspective, it hasn't really what what's that hockey stick thing everyone's into? I haven't really hockey stick, but it's still pretty cool. So I mean, just it's casually making you $1,000 a month, which is nothing to sneeze, right.

Unknown Speaker  27:40  
Like, that's fine. Like,

Michele Hansen  27:43  
there's pretty people who would want to have that. And that's, and it's very, like, yeah, I'm just trying to support like, that's, that's a pretty big achievement.

Colleen Schnettler  27:53  
Yeah, it totally is. It totally is. So I don't know. So I think I was just like, you know, excited about this other thing. And I was like, oh, maybe I should bring out a co founder for this, I don't think I'm going to make any moves to do that. I like having my own thing. I'd like to be able to run it exactly how I'd like. But it would be cool. If I could, I don't know get a little bit more help. And so maybe, maybe I'll decide that it's worth that and I'll put some of my own money into it and, and hire someone to help me. The thing that's cool about simple file upload is like 95% feature complete. So I just need a little more push to get it over the edge. And then it's just like little things I've noticed every time I grab a chunk of time to work on it. It's not like big architectural decisions, except for this sub domain thing, which is causing me infinite headaches. Besides that, once that gets sorted out, it's a couple I can, I can make an impact in like three to four hours on it, like I can do three to four hours, I can implement a feature. And you know, it's good. So it doesn't require that much time.

Michele Hansen  28:53  
And the other thing is, if you're 95%, there, do the other 5%. And then if the stuff after that is stuff that you don't want to do, like marketing and whatnot, like, yes, you can hire people to do that. Or you can just throw it up on micro acquire and see what, you know, people bit like,

Colleen Schnettler  29:10  
Hi, if so we talked a little bit about that last week, that is an interesting idea. I think I'm gonna see how this shakes out with my new my new company, and see what you know, how I am able to balance my life with them. And go from there, because that's an interesting idea that we talked about that I'm definitely you know, it's kind of percolating, but I also think that this thing is almost completely hands off. And as you just said, like, it just brings in some money. So that's pretty cool. So I think it's gonna depend on once we get rolling with this new company, how many spare cycles that takes and that might take all of them and so, you know, there might be something I don't know. It's like, all exciting though. It's like really all good, really fun stuff over here. All good things, all good things. Yeah. So I think last week, as part of my Keep myself accountable podcast, I said I was going to get a test, a test domain set up on my website, I still don't have that, because I'm having a very frustrating time with like architecture challenges. I did all the things I needed to do, I got rails to 6.1, I set up proxying through my app. But now I'm just having trouble like, with the sub domain, I'm sorry, with the CDN and the sub domains and the routing. And this kind of stuff like DNS and routing, and subdomains and CD ends are not things I am intimately familiar with, like they're usually things you just set up once and you let them be, and they're just hanging out. So this whole wildcard subdomain thing is new. I've never done it before. And it's causing a lot of headaches. So I'm hoping this week, it's going to be the same same goal. And this week, I'm going to add the goal of doing a screen share for my sister, so we can start pumping out content. Nice. Yeah, that was a lot of words. But yeah, that's the goal. Cool. I should write that down. Yeah.

Michele Hansen  30:58  
Totally. All right. Well, I think that'll wrap us up for this week. Thank you so much for listening to software social, we will talk to you again.

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