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Colleen: Hi everyone, and
welcome back to software social.

Today, we are super excited
to have a special guest, Chris

Spags, the founder of Jet Boost.

Chris, welcome to the show.

Chris: Hey, Colleen.

Thanks for having me on.

You know, I feel like this is
the major leagues of bootstrap

podcasts, so I'm a little nervous.

Michele: You're a pro at this though.

You have your own show.

Colleen: That's true.

And we are super happy to talk
about Jet Boost with you today.

Do you want to start by telling us a
little bit about how you started the

company and how long you've had it?

Chris: Yeah, definitely.

So I started jet boost in 2019, uh,
and it kind of came about by accident.

Uh, So Friend of mine, Cory Haines,
who you've actually had on the

show before, he was the first
person to introduce me to Webflow.

He created a job board using webflow,
which Webflow for anyone that doesn't

know is like a visual website builder.

And he built this job board,
and it was super impressive.

And there was one issue with it,
which was, there was no way to

quickly search through the jobs.

You had to scroll through
this long list of jobs.

So I wrote some custom code for him.

He put it on his website, and I
didn't really think much about it.

Just like, you know,
just helping a friend.

But over the next few months
he kept sending more and more

people to me who wanted the same
thing for their webflow sites.

So I thought, Hmm, this is interesting.

I did a few of those you know for
free as well, but I thought maybe I

could turn this into something that
anyone can install on their webflow

site, because most people who use
Webflow don't know how to write code.

So I thought, you know, I, I
could help out in that way.

Eventually that turned into jet boost.

I built this product where
it allowed anyone to add a

search to their webflow site.

From there we expanded and built
other plugins for webflow, as well.

Filtering, favoriting, all
sorts of different plugins for

the webflow CMS, specifically.

All of those, which you add without
writing any custom code yourself.

And really just grew from there via
word of mouth and yeah, been doing that

for just over two years now, today.

Michele: What was it in 20?

So it was 2019 that you
first started doing this.

Was it 2020 that you joined
the calm fund portfolio?

Chris: Yep.

That's correct.

So in 2019, I started it
basically as a side project where

I was consulting on the side.

Then I went, full-time on jet boost
in oddly enough, March of 2020.

Um, Yeah, which was, I gave my my last
client four weeks notice in February.

And then my last day with them was a week
before the pandemic really hit in the U S

.
Michele: Gosh.

Chris: and I was like, all right.

I hope this works out.

But yeah, then in may of 2020 is when
I took the investment from calm fund.

So all that timing did end
up working out, eventually.

Michele: And then I think that
was how, I don't know if I met you

on Twitter or through calm fund.

I don't remember.

Chris: Yeah, it was actually,
it was through calm fund.

So had reached out to them because
I had a question that there was

something that I was dealing with,
which I can't even remember now.

And they're like, oh, you
have to talk to Michelle.

And I was like, okay, like we, we
had no connection prior to that.

Um, So, I sent you an email and you
sent me back, this just amazing

response, you know, super detailed
and just incredible advice.

And I was like, oh my gosh, like, this
is first of all, thank God I took the

calm fund money because you know, prior
to this, I was a first time founder.

I was a solo founder.

So I kind of felt like uh, part, part of
the reason I took the investment was to

you know, have access to their network.

And it basically like immediately
paid off just from meeting you.

So yeah, that, that's
how we originally met.

And then I started sending you my
monthly investor update because I

was like, oh my gosh, here's this
business guru, that is a genius.

That is so helpful that I
need to have on my side.

So yeah.

Michele: I'm struggling to hold it
together over here, you're kind.

Oh, and then this crazy thing happened
where colleen, up and moved to California

last year, you know, as we discussed
Colleen last year became a cool kid,

moved to California, joined a startup.

But she moved to San Diego,
which is where you live.

And so then it like turned out that,
I guess you guys met each other

through like the indie hackers,
meetup or something in San Diego.

Is that right?

Chris: I think I started listening to your
podcast because I knew Michelle and then

that's sort of how I met Colleen, you
know, at least a one way communication.

But eventually we started chatting
about no-code stuff and her

product simple file upload.

Then one day, she was like, yeah, I'm
moving to San Diego with my family.

I was like, oh, that's awesome.

And now we meet up like once
a week and talk business.

So it's a, yeah, it's worked out well.

Michele: It's funny how
those things develop.

Colleen: I know.

Yeah.

I think we were internet friends first.

Cause I was like, Hey,
you want to have lunch?

And you were like, sure.

And then I was like, great,
what to have lunch every week.

And you're like I guess so.

Michele: Colleen, you're
like a Labrador puppy.

Colleen: I know, I know.

Just hang out with me.

That's all I need.

Michele: I think this is the first
time we've actually, all three of

us had a conversation, but we have
talked about each other conversations.

And like, there was one time when
like Colleen and I were talking

about something a couple of months
ago, and she was saying how she

was like working through something.

And she was like, well, I was talking
to you know, my friend Chris about it.

And I was like, your
friend, Chris, hold on.

Colleen: I

Michele: I knew him first.

Chris: That's super funny.

Colleen: So when you started jet boost,
what were your consulting hours like?

Were you consulting full-time and
this was completely a side project?

Or did you consult three days a week?

Four days a week?

Chris: Yeah, so I was technically
consulting 20 hours a week, which

was kind of a terrible setup because
it wasn't like I had specific days.

It was just, I was supposed to be
doing 20 hours a week, but it ended

up being a lot more because it's like
hard to say, you know, sorry, client

I've already worked my four hour stay.

I'm not gonna, you know, answer your
calls or respond to your emails.

So, if I was to set up something like
that, again, I would do it specifically,

like you said, days of the week where,
you know, I'm working for this client

Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and the
expectation is set that I don't work.

Thursday, Friday.

Colleen: work is what I have found.

I have tried to set that expectation.

It's still

Chris: It's hard.

Colleen: So you started in 2019, so it's
only been two and a half years, right.

And in those two and a half years,
you also got married and had a baby?

Chris: Yes.

Colleen: Okay.

Chris: 2020 was kind of a crazy year
for me personally, besides the pandemic.

Yeah, it's been really interesting
starting the business while I was you

know, essentially single and just,
I had nothing else to do, but work

for my client and do side projects.

And you know, that was the, some of my
responsibilities to fast-forward to today.

And you know, having a wife in
a one-year-old, and maybe should

have another baby on the way.

So, I feel like I've seen the full
spectrum of you know, possibilities

of, yeah, just like trying to
run the business in having my

personal life changed so much.

And honestly, I don't think, I don't
know that I could start jet boots today.

Like Michelle, I don't know how,
because you started geocoding

after your daughter was born.

Right?

Like, to me,

Michele: Yeah.

She was four months old
when we launched it,

Chris: That's so that's so crazy.

Michele: I think for us, like it was.

You know, like when you have a baby, you
have maybe an hour to yourself every day.

And for me that was really helpful because
it meant, it was like, okay, if I want

to work on our side projects today like
I would think about it the whole day.

Like I would sit down to work at night
when she was in bed, and it was go-time.

We would just blast through stuff at
night and probably stayed up a little

bit later than we should have, but also
we were going to get woken up anyway.

So it's like what you might
as well work until midnight.

If you're going to get woken up at
midnight and then just go to bed

or not, like, I don't know if I
would recommend this path to anyone.

It's what we did.

I don't like, yeah.

I look back now and I'm like, I maybe
should've done things differently, but

for me it was actually like motivating
because before we had her, I dunno, it was

just easy to spend our weekends just like,
you know bingeing TV or whatever, and we

wanted to start stuff, but like, it just
never felt like it had to be done then.

And, so then, you know,
having a kid on the way.

You know, knowing that daycare was
going to be expensive, but then learning

that it was going to be $25,000 a year
was like a holy, like forking , okay,

we got to start launching stuff.

Like we gotta go.

We can't, you know, I was like, we could
maybe make that much money, you know,

bonuses and raises, but in the next six
months, no, like we got to do something.

And so, but, but it's hard.

Like it's, I mean, it's
hard on your body too.

Like, I think for you, I mean,
you've gone through so much

change and stress in the past.

It is really stressful
to launch a company.

I mean, getting married and having
kids are like wonderful, but they also,

like, they can be happy stress in a way.

I mean, like planning
a wedding is not easy.

Like, you know, all those things are like
complicated and doing that in a pandemic.

I mean, I would completely
understand if you're just exhausted.

Chris: Yeah, I've been thinking a lot
about it because I have been going

through a phase where I have felt just
very low energy going into this year.

And all throughout the past two and a
half years, like, I'm sure you guys would,

feel the same about your businesses.

The highs have been extremely high
and the lows have been extremely low.

For me, it's been very different
because this is the first business

that I've started and run, it's
very different from having a

full-time job or from having clients.

The stress that the business combined
with stress a personal life can

be very hard to deal with that.

Michele: Yeah.

Chris: Yeah.

One of the things that has really
helped is just having a network

of people and other founders
that can relate like you guys.

I'm someone that really
struggles to ask for help.

And I always like wait way too long until
things have gotten way too bad, whether

it's dealing with my own stress or you
know, having a problem in the business

or a technical challenge or whatever.

It's like, I have the mindset where,
okay, I need to figure this out.

You know, I need to solve this problem.

And I always admire people are quick
to ask for help because it's something

that I struggled with so much.

Because I just think it's such
a shortcut to solving problems,

and people are so generous.

Like both of you are so generous
with your time, with your advice.

And you know, I think founders, especially
because everyone's been there during

the low points, it's like, you want
to help other people get through that.

So I think that's really cool.

Michele: You know, hearing that.

I have to wonder, you know, you have
a business, you have a spouse, you

have a child, like in that priority
lists, do you feel like you come last.

Chris: That's a good question.

And I would say probably, yeah.

Michele: Like prioritizing
taking care of yourself.

And, you're talking about you know,
handling your stress, for example,

putting that off for a long time.

Chris: Yeah.

One of the things that has been
interesting to me is just like

talking about the priorities, I
have realized in everyone's

different, but for me, I've realized.

My family definitely
comes before the business.

I'm not going to work 12 hour
days anymore and not see my son.

And if that means that the business
isn't able to, if it negatively

affects the business in some way,
I'm willing to make that sacrifice.

But you're right that on the
priority list, I probably

still put myself last, so yeah.

Michele: And I mean, I found the hard
way that that kind of catches up with you

and has its way of making itself known
when that, when that's gotten too far.

And I also say that as someone who
has been like intending to start

doing yoga, to help with my stress,
and then just every day, I just think

about how I should start doing yoga.

Buy a book about doing yoga
rather than actually doing it.

I sound like Colleen, as of two
years ago, who would read books

about starting a business and
not actually start the business?

Chris: Yeah.

Why do we do that?

Like, it's so easy to want to
just go, like you said, like

read a book about something.

I did that for probably 10 years.

Like I read so many books about
starting businesses and read Paul

Graham's blog and you know, all the
things and it wasn't until I started

a business where I was like, oh, now
I'm actually learning how to do it.

I learned more in the last two and a
half years about running a business

than I did in the previous 15.

But still, like you said, we
just like gravitate towards, I'm

going to read a book about yoga
instead of putting it in practice.

Michele: Colleen you looked like
you were relating pretty high.

Colleen: Oh, yeah.

We talk about atomic habits all the
time, but it's the motion verse action

thing that James clear talks about where
you're in motion by reading a book about

starting a business or starting yoga.

So you feel like you're making
progress, but you don't actually

have to do anything hard.

Whereas action, especially being.

I can't speak for Chris, but I assume
Michelle was an excellent student, so

being a perfectionist makes it hard to
do something because you're so scared.

In my opinion, it's not even a fear of
failure, it's a fear of embarrassment

or it's a fear of not being perfect.

And so motion makes you feel
like you're making progress and

it's so easy just to do that.

Whereas, action, actually doing the
thing to your point, Chris, you learn so

much faster, but it's such higher risk.

Chris: Yeah.

Colleen: So let's talk a
little more about Jet boost.

I mean, it seems like you're kind
of living the indie hacker dream.

I mean, right.

You've had great success
in two and a half years.

A lot of people toil
away for two and a half.

Oh side note.

Did anyone see Nathan Barry's
Twitter thread yesterday on

all of his failed companies?

Chris: No.

I missed

that.

Colleen: so good guys.

It made me so happy.

And one of the it's like 10 tweets.

Michele: I'm his failures
did not make you happy, but

like it.

Colleen: it totally did.

Michelle.

His failures made me so happy.

Okay guys, it's epic.

But uh, what about convert kit?

Which does what?

A hundred million dollars a year?

They didn't hit two K MRR
till after their second year.

Chris: so

Colleen: Right.

Okay, so you have to look
it up after the podcast.

I know that made me really,

but anyway, back to Chris.

So Chris hit two K MRR significantly
before his second year.

So jet boost has grown pretty quickly.

It seems like it's been pretty successful.

Do you work four hours a day?

Are you living the dream?

Do you spend every Friday at the beach?

Tell us.

Chris: Yeah.

First of all, let me say Jet Boost is
not doing a hundred million a year, so

Colleen: well, hurry up, buddy.

No, I'm just kidding.

Chris: yeah, I've been thinking about
this a lot, because a lot of time I

feel like I'm not happy with where
Jet Boost is, does that currently.

And I have to go back and think, okay,
like, it did grow quite fast, you

know, for for an indie hacker business.

I was able to go full time on it
pretty quickly after six months.

On one hand, like, I feel like I should
be, like you said, working four hours

day, hanging out at the beach, but I'm
not, I'm sure a lot of people can relate.

Like I'm not wired like that.

Like I want to keep pushing the
business forward and keep growing it.

And I think that's something I'm
struggling with right now is, and

I feel like I've heard you say
this, Michelle, that maybe I'm

putting words in your mouth, but.

That growth isn't necessarily
like a primary goal for geocoding.

And, obviously, you have to grow your
business to a certain point to be

sustainable, and I've been struggling
with like, okay, what's next?

Like right now I'm just aiming
for growth for the sake of

growth, but I don't know why.

And I think that's causing some.

Michele: Hm.

Yeah, we don't aim for growth.

Our goal every year is to just stay
the same and then we accidentally grow.

Chris: Okay.

Michele: and, you know, now we're at the
point where like, you know, both of us are

full-time and, you know, comfortably so.

We also, I mean, talking about going
full-time you went full-time after six

months, I went full-time after four
and a half, three and a half years,

like it was four and a half years
before both of us were full-time.

But, you know, we waited until it
can really, really support us.

And then at that point where it was.

Pretty much for the last couple of years,
we've been like, okay, this is great.

Like, let's just keep it at,
like, if we keep it at this

level, that would be great.

And then, and then we grow kind of without
intending to, which I think is one of the

luxuries of being an independent company.

Chris: Was, was there like a
shift at some point for you guys?

Or was that sort

of always the intention?

Michele: I guess the only time we
really actively try like, so we were

doing a lot of things to grow and
tell people about the product, right?

You know, whenever people had questions
related to stuff we did on stack

overflow, like replying to that or on
hacker news or you know, being present.

Right.

But, in terms of having an actual, growth
goal, the only time we really did was

when we were first talking about Mathias
going full-time and we actually did a

poll cash forward and introduced annual
plans for the first time to try to like,

build up like a little cash reserve, but
that was the only time when I was really

kind of like focused on numbers and
trying to, like, you know like increase

our cashflow, the rest of the time.

We really haven't of course we, like, I
think there's a difference between not

caring about growth and then, but like
still doing marketing, still, you know,

doing sales, all that kind of stuff,
and then not caring about growth, and

then to what Colleen said, you know,
doing maintenance work and then sitting

on the beach for the rest of the day.

Like those are two very different things.

We're definitely in that first category
where we're doing marketing, we're

doing sales, we're doing things to
improve all the time, but we, do it

because we like what we do and we like
our customers and we like what we work

on and we want to maintain that level.

And we know that if the product stays
stagnant and how we talk about the product

stays stagnant, that we won't be able to
keep our revenue at the current level.

Chris: Mm.

Michele: and so we're, we're kind
of very conscious of not stressing

ourselves out about growth, but also
not resting on our laurels either.

But actually, can we just go back to
that whole thing Colleen was talking

about, like, so I will admit I never
read four hour work week because the

concept just seemed ridiculous to me.

Um, And also I just enjoy what I do.

I know a lot of people love that book and,
you know but like this idea that like the

dream and the goal is working, I don't
know, I guess an hour a day, and then

spending the rest of the day on the beach.

I'm sure, there's like a handful of people
who actually do that, but like, come on.

Aren't we, like, I don't know, setting
ourselves up for disappointment as a

community, if that's the goal, like, isn't
that just, I just feel like if you're

holding that up as the goal and this idea
that people with successful companies are

doing that, isn't that doing a disservice
to like founders who are still coming up.

That that's what they
should be aiming for.

And that's projecting that.

That's what everybody has,
because I still sit at a computer

six to eight hours a day.

Like I don't, I don't sorry.

I'm

Colleen: No.

I totally agree.

Cause I, I always ask people that
that's my favorite question,

like, okay, you've made it.

What is your life look like now?

Is not stressed out and no one
only works four hours a day.

I have not found that magical
person who actually does that.

So yeah, you're right.

That's not a real thing.

I haven't actually read
four hour workweek either.

It's just the concept, but there is
this ideal that you would get to this

point of safety and security and comfort
that allowed you to just do what you

wanted on your for four hours a day
and take the rest of the day to do

whatever, but I have not met that person.

And we've had people on, you know, from
all levels of, you know, small MRR to 6

million MRR and no one just hangs out.

So you're right.

It's a lie.

I'll call Tim Ferris and let him know.

Michele: I mean, I think that like
the whole book, I mean, it's like

premised on you, stuff and you
automate it and then you hire a VA

to do the rest of it or something.

But, like, I think what you were
saying Chris, like that goal of

having your family be first, like
that alone feels like a goal.

And like maybe there are points
when you need to grow the revenue

so that you, you know, you took
on a support person last year, for

example, like because that burden was
getting pretty high on you found an

amazing person in your customer base.

But like that feels like the goal
of being able to, you know, check in

and check out and be with your family
when you want to be like that feels

like the indie hacker dream to me
and being able to choose to live in

the middle of nowhere, like me and,
you know, not have to live somewhere

where there are tech jobs, right?

Like that feels like the goal.

And, you know, maybe for, you know,
some people it's like you work three

hours in the morning and then, like,
you know, our friend, like Marie pool,

and like, she'll go gardening in the
middle of the day for a couple of hours.

And then like work late at night.

Probably still doing at least six to
eight, if not more hours of work on

a given day, but getting to structure
your life, however you want it.

But not necessarily this, like, I
don't know, work for an hour a day

and sit on the beach, the rest of it.

Maybe people want that.

Colleen: I still think
that's kind of a lie.

Having talked to so many founders
now through events we've done in

this podcast, people are always
thinking about their business.

I know very few people who
successfully maybe zero people

who have their own business and at
5:00 PM can actually turn it off.

Michele: Yeah, I don't think I know
anyone who just turns it off at 500.

Chris: yeah, because I think that's why,
like a lot of us start businesses is

you're trying to solve a problem, either
a problem that you have or someone, you

know, has, and there's a good chance you
become passionate about that problem.

And it is hard to turn that off.

Like it's hard to not respond to
customers that have questions.

It's hard to not want to, you know noodle
on the latest feature you're thinking

about shipping or you know, the latest
marketing campaign or whatever it is.

There's a reason you started the business.

And I think that's why most people
are, you know, pretty much, no one ends

up working just two hours a day and
hanging out with the rest of the time.

Michele: I mean in talking about
being a parent, like I think

back to those early years for us.

And like, I I have, I don't know if
regrets is the right word, but like, I

feel like, yeah, I was definitely thinking
about the business, especially when I

wasn't at work, because you know, when I
was at work, I was thinking about work.

And then when I was home,
that was my free time.

I mean, we started the business when
our daughter was four months old.

We incorporated the business seven days
after she was born, which every time I'm

looking for our incorporation paperwork.

I'm just like what, I'm like, but I look,
you know, I I guess I've been reading a

lot about attachment theory and the last
few weeks, and I have to wonder like,

whether I was as present as a parent, as
I should have been, or could have been,

like, I feel like that answer was no.

And I'm really just starting to
like, grapple with that right now.

That yeah, while I was playing with
her spending time with her as a

baby, I was also thinking about the
business in the back of my head.

And of course parents always have
stresses on their minds and, you know,

even if you don't have a side project
and you're working or you have, you

know, other stresses coming up that
are distracting, you that's natural.

But, I always had that stressor and,
and I guess I feel yeah, and amount of

like regret now for not having a better.

Balance or not even being able to
like turn it off when looking back,

I feel like I really should have.

I just, I know many of us are kind of
have a little bit of these like workaholic

tendencies where like, we really love
like digging into things and like working

and balancing that with kids is like,
it's really hard and stressful for

everybody, for like parents and kids.

Colleen: Yeah, I agree.

And I think such a small
percentage of people make it with

starting their own businesses.

I think you're right.

Michelle.

I think that people who make it do
have the workaholic tendencies, but

this is something I think about a lot.

You doing that when she was young
has enabled you to literally

move across the country.

Cause it's the best
thing for your daughter.

And, you have no way.

This is in sliding doors, right?

You have no way to go back and be like,
what if I had just kept a corporate

job that didn't take my mental
space, then you might be in a totally

different situation now where you
wouldn't be able to do that for her.

So I think there's so many trade offs
in terms of the amount of work you put

in and success and what you're building
for your family long-term versus

what you give up in the short term.

Michele: Yeah.

I mean, there's so many trade-offs and I
was just so after reading atomic habits,

that he is like a big fan of journaling
and I was reading it and I was like,

Ugh, I'm not going to start journaling.

And then I was like, okay, fine.

Maybe I should start.

Like, I read another book that was
like, you've started journaling.

And I was like, fine.

And I was like, totally a chore.

And now I've actually started doing it.

But I read this book called the
midnight library a couple of weeks

ago where it talks about like this
person, basically they die and then

they get to see what it would have been
like if they had made small decisions

at various points in their life.

So like how their life would have
been different if they had, you know,

become a rockstar as a teenager or,
you know, not broken up with that

person or whatever, and getting
to live all those different lives.

And it just occurred to me to start like,
journaling that out of like, what would

this be like if you know, we had never
started it or I had never gone full time

or I had gone full time a lot sooner.

I think it's interesting and helpful as it
like a mental exercise to No, I guess to

what you're saying to be, to be grateful
for how things have worked out, even if

along the way there, there were bumps.

Colleen: Yeah.

And I do think this conversation is
making me think, we need to reframe

the narrative on what success looks
like as an indie hacker business.

Michele: Yes.

Colleen: because.

As we just discussed this mystical
idea, isn't real for anyone.

So what does success really look like?

I mean, both of you, to me, both of you
look like you're in positions of extreme

success, yet both of you seem kind, kinda,
I mean you're happy, but maybe you're

not, you don't feel totally successful.

Like neither of you is
like, this is awesome.

I got it.

I'm a success.

I'm just going to enjoy it.

Chris: Yeah, I've been
thinking a lot about this.

There's definitely like
the, what is it called?

I think it's like the hedonic.

Colleen: hedonistic Adaptation.

Chris: exactly.

Or it's like, you become used to wherever
you're at and whatever gains or losses

you've received and it's like, that
just becomes your new normal So yeah,

it's cause I think about this a lot,
like if you told me two and a half

years ago, that Jet Boost would be where
it's at today, that I'd be able to work

full-time on it and, you know, hire
someone to help us support and be able

to comfortably pay him and all of that.

Like, I'd be like, wow, that's insane.

Like, that is seriously insane.

I can't believe that, you
know, here, here I am.

Consulting part-time and watching side
projects and having them go nowhere.

And I'm sure so many
people can relate to that.

And then to finally have one
that, that worked, like you said,

Nathan Barry posted the whole
list of all his failed companies.

It's like once one finally works,
you think, okay, like now, now

everything's going to be amazing.

Now my life is going to be just
like perfect and rainbows and great.

Eventually, it just becomes part of your
life and it's like your new normal, and

you still have things you have to deal
with in new problems and new challenges.

And in those can be good.

Like, there are it's stressful at time.

Like it's stressful thinking.

Okay like thousands of people rely on
this business and rely on it running

reliably and performing, you know,
the, the job that it's supposed to

do, but it's also a fun challenge.

It's fun to build something that thousands
of people use and give you feedback on.

And so yeah, I've really been trying
to find that balance as far as thinking

about like what success looks like,
what should the goals be going forward?

And, it's still an ongoing
process, but working through it for.

Michele: Know, I feel like there is a
parallel between starting a business.

And being a parent that, you know, I
remember someone telling me when our

daughter was young, that, you know,
the problems you have now for what,

whether that's, you know, feeding or
whatnot, like you will figure out those

problems, but then more problems will
come or more challenges will come.

And so you are always figuring out
one challenge and moving on to the

next thing that seems even more
complicated and it's like, oh my God,

how are we going to figure this out?

And then you eventually figure that out
and then you go then the next thing.

And then the next thing, and I feel like
running a business is so much like that

where you're just like very gradually
building up this confidence, but there is

always new challenges, like all the time.

And it's just a matter of, do you enjoy
those challenges that you're facing?

And, you know, unlike with parenting,
with a business, you can decide no,

and then sell it and move on, you
cannot sell your children and move on.

But I think there's, and I think doing
both of those are the same time too.

Like I think really I mean, it is,
it's just a lot at the same time,

but I feel like it, it kind of helps
to give me that perspective on it.

Chris: Yeah, one thing I've really been
wanting to ask you, because you've been

doing geocoding for eight years now,
and you've said, it's basically like

you have no plans to sell the business.

It's the best job you've ever had, but
you've also, you've also said like,

you guys started the business because
you want to be able to pay for daycare.

So did you take steps along the way
to intentional like build something

that you knew you would love doing,
or did you just kind of fall into it?

I'm only two years in and that's like,
something that I'm trying to figure

out is how to, like, there are things I
love about the business, but there are

also some things about jet boosts that
are not enjoyable, if that makes it.

Michele: Yeah.

I mean, I think as you go, you know,
you're designing a business, right?

Like we don't think about it as a form
of design, but it is all the decisions

we make are design decisions about the
kind of business we want to be running.

Even things like, you know, do we, are
we freemium or we call for a demo, right?

That has a huge impact on your business
model, but also, you know, maybe on

your happiness as a solo founder, You
know, if you love being on phone calls,

then that's a great design decision.

If you don't, then it's not.

And so, you know, along the way we
have made decisions both a lot, like

align for what we needed, you know,
like we needed it to be a low touch

SAS for a long time, because we
could not work on it most of the day.

And so that informed a lot of our
decisions around automating things and

making things very clear and transparent.

And like, we couldn't have
call us for pricing because

we couldn't pick up the phone.

And that also turned out to be the
kind of business that we like running

that we feel good about running.

I don't know.

I guess you know, we only do things
if they align with what we believe in

and how we would want to be treated as
customers ourselves, and, you know, I

have no great passion for the concept
of latitude and longitude coordinates.

You know, they're, they're not stamps like
nobody collects them for the fun of it.

But I love working with our customers.

I love what we are able to help our
customers do and the amount of stress

we're able to take off their plates and
complication we're able to take off their

plates of what they're trying to do.

And I just like nerd out
on business in general.

And so I love like being a horizontal
SAS for me is really, really fun

because I love getting to learn about.

All these types of businesses that had
never even occurred to me that they

existed and they use our software.

It's just so cool to me.

And then I get to work with my husband who
is like the best coworker I have ever had.

And that's what makes me
want to keep working on it.

and, and do that for, you
know, as long as we can.

Chris: that's awesome.

I also want to challenge you on not
having great passion for longitude

and latitude coordinates because
the other day you told me a fact the

only moving zip code in the U S so

Michele: It is a mail on Lake Michigan.

Yeah.

You know, you find moments of
delight even in strings of numbers.

Yes.

Colleen: Well, I think that's going
to wrap up this week's episode

of the software social podcast.

Chris, thank you so much
for coming on today.

Chris: Yeah.

Thanks so much for having me.

Michele: Chris, if people want
to check you out, check out jet

boost, listened to your podcasts.

Where should they go?

Chris: Yeah.

So you can find jet boost@jetboost.io.

I also do a podcast with Corey Haines.

It's called default alive.

I believe the, the URL
is default alive.fm.

And you can find me on Twitter
as C underscores Spags.

Michele: Awesome.

Well, thanks so much for coming on.

Chris: Yeah.

Thanks.