Super Pumped (aka The Saturday Edition)

Four things Colleen is super pumped about... and one thing she's not.

Michele Hansen 0:00
Welcome to the Saturday edition of software so she I'm in a super great mood. Michelle,

Colleen Schnettler 0:05
thanks for making me get out of bed to record a podcast on Saturday morning. It's great. Super happy about that. I

Michele Hansen 0:11
would blame the landscapers Okay. Does not where they even your landscapers

Colleen Schnettler 0:16
like they don't I mean, we wrote the house and so the landscapers are part of we don't pay them directly, they go through the landlord, but it was not awesome when they cut my fiber cable in the middle middle of our last podcast recording. That's why we're recording on a Saturday.

Michele Hansen 0:33
In this sort of the context of why I was, you know, just throwing shade on landscapers not not landscapers in general, but yes, we were recording on our regular recording day, which is Thursday. And five minutes in Colleen just disappears. She was actually telling me how she was about to pair with a new customer. Like, right afterward. Yeah. And then you just disappeared and it turned out your internet cable had been cut. Yeah.

Colleen Schnettler 1:01
The funniest part though, is he was so convinced. What?

Michele Hansen 1:05
Hold on. Mathias. Is computers ringing. Oh, no, wait, no, it's fine now. Okay. All right. Sorry. There's just there's just gonna be a phone ringing noise. It's just It's Saturday, like, whatever. We're here. Like, there's no risk of the internet being cut at my house today. Well, no. Well, Matias is out mulching. So he's the one making noise right now, because we started that one out. And you were like, sorry, there's gonna be noise in the background. Can you hear it? And I couldn't because of landscapers. And Matias is mulching and I guess the only internet cable at risk is the one running to the forest. But thankfully, I'm not on that connection. Cool. So good. Hashtag Wi Fi for us.

Colleen Schnettler 1:44
Anyway, yeah, so I was gonna pair with the customer. And I had to reschedule. And I felt like a jerk. But he has been he is our first Rails customer and he's become a friend. I don't know that we were friends before, but I feel like we're friends.

Michele Hansen 2:00
You do. You've seen some things now.

Colleen Schnettler 2:03
We rescheduled for Monday, so I'll be doing that next week.

Michele Hansen 2:07
Okay, I'm actually really impressed. You got your like internet fixed.

Colleen Schnettler 2:10
Okay, so here's what happened. Here's what's happened. easy not to be like so off topic. But so the landscapers come in, they cut the they cut the cable, the guy's insistent that he can fix it. I'm like, it is fiber, sir. You cannot fix fiber. Like it is impossible. He's insistent. So you say, oh, no, it's fine. I can fix it. So i Meanwhile call AT and T and this was 8am. Right. So it was awesome. I mean, they were out here. He got here at 4pm. It took him three hours because he had to run completely new cable. So that was kind of funny, because we're like eating dinner as a family. Why this guy is like running our cable. But yeah, it was fixed by like 9pm that night, so Wow. I mean, that was pretty spectacular. It was pretty

Michele Hansen 2:51
sad. Like because we amazingly hung up and you were like, Oh, my internet went out. Days. I'm like, Oh, man. Well, no, at first you were like, Do you have a sec? Like, let me just restart the router. And I was like, Yeah, sure. I can wait a couple minutes. And you're like, No, the cable has literally been cut. Yeah, that's gonna be a multi day fix. This is not a five. It's and we're back.

Colleen Schnettler 3:14
Yes. So I was at that's real life. Right. Incredible. How quickly they turned it around. It was awesome. And I apologize to the person I was supposed to pair with, but we've rescheduled for Monday. So that's great. I've tons of good work stuff to talk about. You want to talk about good work stuff, because that's what our podcast is about. Right. growing a business. Yeah, I

Michele Hansen 3:33
mean, it's also about the real life of running a business right so I think fiber getting kind of internet is getting cut in the middle of your workday and you have to reschedule with a customer like that's not the kind of thing you know you're gonna read about in a business book but that's what happens and you somehow had to wait stories

Colleen Schnettler 3:49
way to figure out the story is so ridiculous it almost sounds like I made it up I'm like the guy literally cut the cable but fortunately it should why were they digging so deep but they're not when they're not there up? They're not buried there along the side of the house. So he was trimming a tree that's like growing along the side of the house aggressively I guess because I mean the tree is brown the cable was white but whatever. And I guess that the key trim the tree and the cable,

Michele Hansen 4:17
okay? Because Mateus was like what kind of landscaping work were they doing that they were digging that deep and they cut a kid's not buried but now he had like one of those like long like tree saw like things and just kind of sawed it in half by mistake but did the power go out for your house to them?

Colleen Schnettler 4:35
Or was no so that they run so they actually run next to each other and you know in he cut the fiber but not the power? I mean honestly though, like modern technology. Wow. I was able to so then the problem was I have an office so I was like this is no problem. I'll just go into my office but I have to be here for eight hours because 18 T is going to show up between you know 10am And 6pm Or what obscene like hour you know I can need to be at your house for eight hours. Because we have no idea when we're going to be there. So I had to stay here. But I was able to hotspot from my phone. I couldn't quite do calls on that. But I was able to work. So that was really great day. Yeah, I mean, I mean, think of how cool that is. Like, I was able to just hotspot from my phone and actually work. That's really cool. That's committed. Yeah. Wow, can we spend like five minutes talking about my internet? This is a great podcast. Everyone's gonna be like, happening. Are they drunk? And nope, it's just Saturday morning.

Michele Hansen 5:34
We had someone a friend of ours suggested to us like a couple of months ago that we do a late night edition because I guess they listen to soccer podcasts that are like run by Americans. And so sometimes they're watching a soccer game at like, you know, one o'clock in the morning, US time, which I guess I'm not going to think through the time zones to figure out where everybody is. But like, you know, sometimes they're drinking whiskey or whatever. I feel like that's not our vibe. Like we're you know, we're a podcast you can listen to while your kids are in the car. Yeah, I was double fisting earlier though. I was picking raspberries while eating a nectarine so why Wild

Colleen Schnettler 6:14
Wild Saturday in Denmark

Michele Hansen 6:19
so yes work work thing. Oh man your work things doing on the Saturday morning? Well,

Colleen Schnettler 6:25
the work things are so good. I mean, I'm going to work all day to day minus soccer but that's because at the conference, remind me later after I tell you about my work things I wanted to give you a hard time about something you posted on Twitter that made me laugh, but

Michele Hansen 6:38
okay. Okay, but I have to wait 20 minutes.

Colleen Schnettler 6:41
So stick around Okay. Work is so Okay, so as everyone knows, oh, no, no one knows this. Okay, so probably no one's listening to this episode. Wait, I know this. No, this is exciting though. I should have probably led with this. Okay, okay, wait,

Michele Hansen 6:55
I should shut up and let you so I

Colleen Schnettler 6:56
signed up for Corey Haynes is $500 MRR challenge for simple file upload. Have you seen this?

Michele Hansen 7:02
What is the Corey Haynes $500 MRR channel?

Colleen Schnettler 7:06
Okay, do you know who Cory Haynes is? He's the SAS marketer guy. Yes. Okay, so he is doing he's also one of our software social. Yeah, he is. So he is doing a challenge and you had to apply and I don't know he accepted. I don't know how many people he accepted. But basically if you have a SAS and you're trying to grow your MRR, if you buy a membership to an annual membership to swipe files, which is $500 and he will work with you personally and personally guarantees he can get your MRR up $500 in six months. Okay, isn't that cool?

Michele Hansen 7:41
Interesting. I'm super pumped. So if you increase his ARR by $500, he will increase your MRR by $500. Yeah,

Colleen Schnettler 7:48
and the coolest thing about this I think is is it's really like there's no formula to increase MRR so having someone who is a Marcus literally a SAS marketing guy like Corey in your corner giving you advice it's super great and it's funny so what's funny about this is I know Cory in real life and you know we get together once in a while but we never have done like a deep dive on my business stuff before so we did a like an hour long intro call and it was awesome like it was just so like idea and it was all marketing right like it wasn't it was not he was like you still have people signing up that means something is working like you have people converting from free to paid so don't add more features like maybe you will need to eventually but right now that's not the move. So anyway, I'm super excited about that. Yeah,

Michele Hansen 8:35
and what So when was this call? It was a while it was like two weeks ago so

Colleen Schnettler 8:38
I'm really not focused. I mean, I have Caitlin working on some of this stuff and I but I'm really just trying to get to the conference right now and then I'll see you know, I should have a little more time when I'm building a conference doc

Michele Hansen 8:49
I feel like I saw you post elsewhere though that your Mr was

Colleen Schnettler 8:52
up first. Yeah, girl. Okay, so how funny is this? I gotta get for it Korea hard time. So I have this call with Cory. I did nothing because I was like, Okay, I have six months. So I'm going to sign up now and I'm going to really give a really get into it in a month. And like MRR and

Michele Hansen 9:07
then and then five months and and 20 days from now I will start implementing the advice.

Colleen Schnettler 9:12
And Mrs. Already up 200 bucks. It's like he's good luck or something.

Michele Hansen 9:18
You just it was just put out in the universe that you want to know. It's like what do they call your 500 MRR

Colleen Schnettler 9:23
other people like oh, yeah, no, there's

Michele Hansen 9:26
the Yeah, the

Colleen Schnettler 9:27
crystals people. The crystals. People would tell me it's like, I manifested it with my brain. So

Michele Hansen 9:34
you're so California now. So,

Colleen Schnettler 9:37
but But in all seriousness, I think what's cool about simple file upload Mr. Bing up is like a couple months ago, I pushed out a lot of updates. I think I talked about him on the podcast, the multiple file uploads and on demand image resizing. And nothing happened. And so I was like, Whoa, like, nothing moved. And so I think what we're seeing now like a month later is that stuff is finally starting to gain some traction is my theory is like, Okay, you can't expect to like, implement a feature and have a huge jump in MRR, like two days later, like these things take time, especially with people trying to find you and people checking it out. So my theory as we're now seeing, we're now reaping the rewards of stuff we put out there a couple months ago.

Michele Hansen 10:23
Yeah, I mean, that makes sense. Like, did you put out content around those, at least in your documentary? Yeah. Documentation

Colleen Schnettler 10:28
and a Heroku landing page, which has performed really well. I used to

Michele Hansen 10:33
SEO stuff. It just takes too. Yeah, that's the hardest thing you need overnight results. It's not your move, you know, go run some ads, right, like, but if you if you can be patient, do SEO. Yeah. And then it just compounds. So it's encouraging that you're seeing results from that? Yeah, a month later.

Colleen Schnettler 10:54
Yeah. So I'm super pumped about that. I'm super pumped to be working with Cory. You know, we have lots of good, we're gonna focus on SEO as well. You know, we did, we looked at h refs, and we looked at like all the keyword targeting stuff. And we're really going to double down on content for simple file upload. Because the great thing about it, it's interesting, because my two products are in such different places. Simplify upload is done. I mean, it's, you know, like the product is there. It doesn't have every feature I would like, but it has a lot of features, which is good for me, because it gives me a nice balance of both products need a lot of marketing. But it's nice not having to try to do tech for two products. Right now, at least.

Michele Hansen 11:34
Yeah, that's you've kind of got enough on your plate. And if you can just get the marketing engine going for simple file upload like that one is already making you money. So that's a nice little padding to have.

Colleen Schnettler 11:50
Yeah. Oh, and I got the React component out there for multiple file uploads, which is something I had been like kind of dragging my feet on. Because I don't know, react. So it was great to get that done. I put up a little demo site. I'm quite proud of it. So yeah, I did that this week. So that was cool.

Michele Hansen 12:09
Nice. So this quarry thing like is this closed now?

Colleen Schnettler 12:12
Yeah, it's close. You cannot you cannot apply. That's why I even though I knew I had the next month where like from when I signed up, which was like almost two, three weeks ago, to October 6, I was like, I knew that time was going to be 99.9% Hammerstone and real SAS that's why I signed up because I have six months. So I was like I sign up now. Even if the first month I can't execute a lot. Then after we get past the conference, I'll have a lot more time to execute. And I have Caitlin who can execute immediately. So yeah, that's close to though he did it. I think he does it only like once a year so you might have to wait a year if your interest does

Michele Hansen 12:46
that make sense? Because it's he's gonna spend all this time with people. Yeah, it's

Colleen Schnettler 12:50
a huge I mean, for him to this is Len though. Yeah. You know, it's huge, I would think huge amount of his time. Although to listen to his podcast,

Michele Hansen 13:00
sometimes I am I only listen to podcasts and my drive to and from language school and that's right. If I'm a bad goal student and only go once a week rather than twice you don't have as much which happens sometimes then like that's the bed like that. That's my podcast listening time. So I am a I think I'm I think I'm still in like July

Colleen Schnettler 13:21
or Okay, it's done. You can skip all those just skip ahead behind skip those. And Chris, I love your podcast. But in the last episode of their podcast, Corey said, he just doesn't he just doesn't check his email. He just has declared email banker. I know. Right? He they were talking about like focused work versus like all that little minutia you have to do to like keep your business running. He looks at his email, but he he says he spends two hours on email a week. Does he have like somebody? Oh, no, I don't know. I'll ask him when I see him. But But my understanding was like, he just kind of looks at it. He's like, That's not important. And he just ignores all email. I know. Okay, no, so that's why,

Michele Hansen 14:03
you know, it's just my own perspective where I mean, we like I thankfully had I only had an hour and a half of online class for language school yesterday like I mean, so normally it basically between driving and everything it consumes from eight to like 230 So that was a relief. But like my inbox like I for my just my work email, I had something like 30 emails that up all had like, stuff I like yes, you've had to read them took like a lot of time and like I had to do them despite the fact that I was like, working all day on Thursday. And it was just like, I basically just spent my whole day yesterday just trying to get through my inbox and it's still I still have like five or six things sitting in there. It's awful. But then again, it was a lot of stuff that was like billing and like you have to do that stuff. Stuff you have to do like Yeah, yeah, totally. Anyway, that was a funny. I mean, I guess there are people though, like that have a VA manage like he

Colleen Schnettler 15:06
has like 100,000 unread emails.

Michele Hansen 15:10
I don't get it. I guess they must have a different workflow like because for me very much like my inbox is my to do yes, there was a point where like if you need anything from me and you don't email it to me, it's not going to get done. I joke that I'm like, What? No, not not Ron Ron Swanson, who am I thinking of from Anchorman Will Ferrell's character where it's like, if it's on the teleprompter, or he'll say it. And if it's not on, if it's not on the teleprompter, who was it like that? That's what I'm like, I'm like, if it's in my email, I will do it. If it's not in my email. I won't do it. funny about that. So he's the Ron Burgundy strategy of email.

Colleen Schnettler 15:47
Yeah, it's like when my husband texts me something that I need to remember. I always am like, Can you email that to me? And he's like, really? Okay.

Michele Hansen 15:54
I'm not the only one who does?

Colleen Schnettler 15:57
Like, like, just text me that stuff. Can you email me? That's tough. Yeah, they have a different workflow to be fair, like core uses zip, zip message very heavily. But anyway, it was funny. It made me laugh when he said he only does two hours of email a week. I was like, how

Michele Hansen 16:14
I always feel kinda bad when I'm sort of imposing my process on other people. But to me, it's like, I'm like if somebody DMS me something. And I'm like, Hey, like, sorry, I always lose DMS. Can you email this to me? Like, to me, that's I'm actually complimenting them, because I'm saying that fair enough to not what you're telling me is important enough that I don't want to forget it. And I will get back to you. Yeah. It may not be super timely, but it will sit in my inbox until Yeah,

Colleen Schnettler 16:42
yeah. It's solid. Yeah. I was telling you about, oh, we're talking about quotes. I kind of we hit on the topic of email. We're talking about Korean. So yeah, so just wondering if you might want to do that. Just go follow him. Yeah, so probably not till next year, though. But, um, anyway, I'm super pumped. I'm gonna be giving updates on the pod as I go through the process with him. And hopefully, I'll, you know, will speed that up after the conference, and other fun things with Hammerstone. So I'm working with a friend to build like for the demo, and by for the talk, I'm giving eight days or something. Once a talk, it's coming up quickly.

Michele Hansen 17:20
Wait, hold on. Is that how's it? When is your what date is your talk?

Colleen Schnettler 17:24
I don't know. October 6, maybe October 7, October something or other?

Michele Hansen 17:28
Okay. I'm so I'm doing I'm giving a workshop that

Colleen Schnettler 17:32
fit? Yeah. Okay. So we're both that same week? And then talk the six. Wait, that's the thing in Belgium, right? Yeah. Okay, so we're both on the same timeline for this. Yeah. So I'm working with a buddy. And he has built this charting library that if you use bullet train, you can use refined filters and charts, and I'm super excited about it. Everybody loves charts. Everyone loves charts. I'm gonna make a slide that says everyone loves charts. So

Michele Hansen 17:55
did I ever tell you about when so I used to work in like the financial world. Before I was a full time founder. And we did a lot of testing on like, how people read analyst reports about stocks and, and stuff. So I'm, I'm, I'm putting you to sleep already. But trust me, it's not so but we tested. So, but we tested what people think of a like a stock report basically saying, you know, this is a good company, why versus this one isn't right. Same text, if it has a chart of the stock, versus no chart, versus a chart that actually has nothing to do with the stock like it's just like some data in general about something. And people by far found it more convincing if there was any kind of chart and there's actually academic research that backs this up to what is fascinating people love charts, charts, like I don't say that ironically, like I have seen it from my own eyes and in my own research that people love charts. Yeah, that's so that's exciting that you're getting into the people love charts. Yeah,

Colleen Schnettler 19:01
I'm excited too. I mean, you know, we had been talking about it. I was hoping it was going to manifest and it did he got it done. You got it done when he said he would which I look at you in your math. What is that? Oh my gosh, sidenote, Another side note on Saturday morning. Have you seen the show we crashed on what is it on? Oh that we work dude watched it not the documentary on Netflix the actual show with an how Oh, this

Michele Hansen 19:27
is like the dramatic. I think we make we did one episode and then it was just like it was a bit too fawning over them. I did I loved it. Like it was so funny. Much of like a positive portrayal of them. I much prefer the ones that are like a bit more on the crash and burn narrative.

Colleen Schnettler 19:47
Anyway, I loved it. Like I want to go watch it again. But um, anyway, speaking of manifesting, they they talk about that a lot in a very dramatic way.

Michele Hansen 19:59
Okay, so you manifest No

Colleen Schnettler 20:00
I did arts my buddy came through for me is what I'm trying to say is totally came through. When he told me I mean, a lot of times people tell me they'll do something and then they don't actually do the thing. So I wasn't sure if I would have time to integrate it into my presentation and demo. And he totally came through for me. He got it done when he said he would, it's gonna be cool. So I'm super excited about that. It just feels you know, it just feels really cool to have that as part of this demo that I'm putting together. So this is for your, your to my talk, but it's also for the demo I'm building and it's for bullet train customers. I don't know if he's ready yet to release it to production. But bullet train customers could now buy, refine and buy super charts and have a page where you can change filters and your charts just magically update for you.

Michele Hansen 20:51
Are you still building that real estate website? Demo? Yeah, yeah, that's it. Oh, yeah. Nice.

Colleen Schnettler 20:56
So it's looking pretty good. I'm really happy with it, I got all the tech stuff done for the talk. And now I just have to like, do the talk part. But the talk part is not as hard as like having the whole I was really worried about just you know, building an application from scratch, even with a lot of, of scaffolding in place still takes a while. So I was worried about the time in terms of like getting that all working, getting Hammerstone integrated. But I have some cool points. I'm really excited. Like a lot of things we have talked about before, like things I want to show people how to do with Hammerstone. Like, send an email when a new property comes online. Like I do that nice. So stuff like that, which I was worried because I hadn't actually done that. And I was like, how much work? Is it going to be? No, it actually does that. So you know, you click on a button, it links to the filter, stuff like that, that I really want to show. So I'm pumped about that.

Michele Hansen 21:43
So I feel like we have covered what like four or five things that you are super pumped about right now, there is the fact that you have internet and I'm so excited about that is the Corey Haynes Marketing Bootcamp thing that you're doing. There is the talk. There is the multiple image uploading thing. Yes, there's the charting library. I'm basically testing myself. Whether are we? I think that was all of the things you are super bummed about. You are however, not super pumped about something that I posted on Twitter the other day.

Colleen Schnettler 22:23
So last week, we had a talk on the podcast, and I was given you a little bit of hard time about the empathy. And you went like the complete you did like a complete 180. And you posted some slides that said, how to use empathy to manipulate your customers. Like it was like I didn't mean like, oh, Ed, I meant like, okay, let's just see how we can win with empathy. All right, I pushed her too far. She went off the ledge.

Michele Hansen 22:52
No, I actually, I think I did go a little bit too far. When I was drafting that there are some slides that I did not tweet out that I think I'm gonna kill. Okay, I know, I'm definitely gonna kill. But no, I mean, and maybe I'll save that and do it in another venue. I'm not quite sure. But I thought it was interesting to be like, you can use empathy. And understand someone's process, understand why they do what they do, and build something that serves them and helps them do that better. But also still be a jerk, which was basically kind of the point and sort of, almost, like, almost poking fun a little bit at myself, I guess. Because I don't know, I feel like empathy is often very, like, you know, ponies, and daisies in one love each other and world peace, kind of like and so I wanted to be a little bit provocative. Yeah. And so I was actually I have it with two examples on it, of using empathy but being a jerk at the same time. So the first one is Steve Jobs who like understood, like, you know, it's a pain to carry around 50 CDs at a time and swap them in and out. Like, people want to listen to music wherever they want to go. Right. And also that people want to be able to access their files from wherever, right. So yes, it's amazing that we got the iPod that led to the iPhone and whatever. And also, you know, you have one Mac device, they all connect to each other through iCloud. But those are like, I mean, a little bit of a jerk move because how much are we all paying for iCloud now? Right? Like they're really, really good at monetizing that need. Yeah. So he understood the need, and then like, monetize the hell out of it. I'm also an apple shareholder, so I'm not hating. Also, he, I think there's like stories of him, like throwing chairs at people and like, seriously, like being like, you know, a capital J jerk. And then also the other example was QuickBooks. Somebody actually mentioned on Twitter that they didn't like they didn't really get the empathy thing until I mentioned that example of how like QuickBooks like that, like they do a ton of user research understanding how a small businesses do Track payments, track invoices charge people like they acquired MailChimp like how small businesses market and make money. But they also know how strong of a inertia people have once they start using their product, how difficult it is to switch products, how you also have to have, you know, use a product that your accountant uses as well. And like, so my price for QuickBooks goes up every year, even though it has not gotten better at all, they get it, they get my process for, you know, doing accounting for a small business. And the fact that they get that process means that they charge for it to write, which I think is kind of like kind of a jerk move. It also means they're good business people, I also own their stock. This is how I make peace with it is just buying stock and things. So I was kind of like, I'm kind of thinking of talking about that. But but I you know, and that's just the intro to like, sort of get people into it. But then be like, okay, like, you know, I'm not standing up here telling you to use empathy to take advantage of people, like people who use empathy to take advantage of others. They don't need to be taught this. They do this instinctively. I don't need to teach them. But you know, here's how you can use it to, you know, at least sell something people want or make something that will make your stakeholders happy. Right? Like it's not just all ponies and butterflies and right. Yeah, no, I think that's a good a good ask. But I think I do need I do need to like pull it back. Like,

Colleen Schnettler 26:31
which is funny, because I told you to be more aggressive last week, but it felt like you went and I was more aggressive. I was like, okay, cool. Yeah, I mean, maybe, but I do think you're right, getting people interested. And kind of like having that hook is is really good. I liked that idea.

Michele Hansen 26:45
I don't know. I mean, do you think like, I'm a little bit nervous about standing on stage and calling a company a jerk, but then also kind of knowing it? I mean, I hope the fact that I mean, I will say that I'm a shareholder. And both makes it's like, you know, it's, it's also coming out of respect a little bit, right? Like, yeah, no, it's

Colleen Schnettler 27:06
cool. I don't think it's a problem at all

Michele Hansen 27:07
I would do and Steve Jobs is dead. You know, I mean, I guess you shouldn't speak ill of the dead, but many other people have, and I will just quote them. So maybe that's okay.

Colleen Schnettler 27:15
No, I think I think you're good. I think I wouldn't sweat it.

Michele Hansen 27:20
But this way, I'm good. I I'm glad I shared by early slides. Maybe I should share the final ones with you just to like, do a vibe. You know, make sure. Is this interesting to someone who doesn't care about empathy, or doesn't isn't attuned to it already. But is not entirely off putting? Yeah,

Colleen Schnettler 27:43
I think you have to find that balance. Now, if you're telling me I need, like, I have, you know, either use empathy and manipulate people. I'm like, II? Well, I'm not trying to really do that. I'm trying to use empathy to make money, right? Empathy to make money. Right. And there's nothing wrong with making money. I don't think anyone thinks that. Well, some people think there.

Michele Hansen 28:01
Yeah. No. That is not this podcast. This is a podcast about starting and running a SaaS business. Usually, for the record, we think making money in an ethical way is a good? No, I actually, I had a slide in there that I wrote that was like, that was it was too much. It was it was like, you know, so you probably saw me get up on stage and saw that my talk was about empathy. And you had one to four reactions, which was, Oh, my God, it's so amazing. Somebody is talking about empathy at a tech conference. Number two, your wife or your therapist has told you that you need to work on empathy and you're interested or they've talked about it. Number three, you said, oh, a soft skills talk and went back to your terminal. Number four, you haven't looked up from your terminal? And I was like,

Colleen Schnettler 28:50
I like that one.

Michele Hansen 28:52
No, do it. Oh, Matias said it was too much. He was like, kind of like fine. I'm not like that. He is he I don't want to like rag on my audience. Like that says I like him, but I kind of aggressive doesn't feel like me. You can have that slide. Okay, like go for when you do a soft skill. That's five years from now, when you're, when you're a true believer, I'm gonna manifest Coleen as an empathy, true believer who gives talks at conferences about it, and they'll and there will be like an empathy plugin. And she will be giving a demo on it, and it will be amazing. I'm manifesting this. Goodness, you can have that slide. But for me, it's he was like, yeah, don't make fun of your audience. And I was like, yeah, that

Colleen Schnettler 29:36
doesn't feel authentic. To me. It feels totally authentic. So if I ever but I

Michele Hansen 29:41
was like, amped up after that, though,

Colleen Schnettler 29:43
I love that that you got amped up about it. I think that's fun.

Michele Hansen 29:47
I mean, you know that this thing about like, you know, there's I think there's honesty that's genuine and gentle and honesty that hurts and I don't I don't want to go towards

Colleen Schnettler 29:57
Yeah, you you got like you said, You've got to Do what feels authentic and good to you. It's your talk.

Michele Hansen 30:02
So yeah, so I should share those slides with you. But do you think the do you think the Steve Jobs QuickBooks thing is?

Colleen Schnettler 30:08
Yeah, I think that's totally Yeah. I think we'll all be like, yeah, yeah, that's pretty much true. Yeah. Okay. All right, especially QuickBooks. Doesn't everyone use QuickBooks? And you're like, dude, what do you provide me for this? Like, I mean, I know what they provide me. But like, you know, they just keep raising the price. Why is it change anything? You still don't have invoicing? WTF actually, I think they just added it, but it's, they do, they don't have time tracking. That's what it is. So I have a different service for tracking and then I invoice through QuickBooks which pisses me off every see they

Michele Hansen 30:37
get the process, they get the your time tracking. And so they're they're adding that in and the more entrenched you are, oh, I'll never leave higher. Your switching costs are so high, which you're just you're just like, true stories, whatever. Yep. Because my account, one won't use anything else. All right. Cool. I have to work on that, though. Because I don't have that many slides at this point. And I said, I wasn't going to do my normal thing, which is like, hold it all in my head and then write it down. Yeah, dude, it's only two weeks away. It's done. I need to like, no, I need to, like get it out of my head. So maybe I should go do that. And maybe you should go back to

Colleen Schnettler 31:14
bed. Dude. I'm sorry. This is gonna be such. I don't know why I'm so I'm just mad. It's Saturday morning. I only had a half a cup of coffee. Like, I don't know what to tell you.

Michele Hansen 31:23
I'm sorry. I'm manifesting a good day for you. Oh, I'm

Colleen Schnettler 31:25
Have a great day. We got soccer this morning. You're super practice it. You know, it's interesting, Michelle, because I was making a list of like things that have gone well, because the past two weeks have been pretty high intensity stressful with everything going on. And I was like, Dude, I crushed this week. And you know what else I did this week that made a difference. I was very deliberate about making time for social stuff, like work social stuff. But like I had lunch with a founder in San Diego yesterday, who I've met on the internet, and this person and I were going to meet up like three months ago. And you know what, people just lose the thread and you forget, you're like, oh, it seems hard to meet with someone new. Well, I contacted the person and we had lunch yesterday. And it was awesome. And then on Wednesday, I contacted someone that I had been virtually introduced to like four months ago and set up a coffee chat call. So I think being for me, like with my personality, being very deliberate about spending time with other people in my space and other founders one on one. That's just so energy giving for me. I saw I did that this week, too. So I think that really helped with all of my stuff. That's wonderful. Thanks.

Michele Hansen 32:31
I actually, you know, I'm gonna get a little bit of that next week, actually, because Peter zoom from reformed, yeah, sting a little like, one day cowork unconference hike for founders. Yeah, like an hour from us on Thursday, so I'm gonna get a little bit of that energy to myself. Now. That's

Colleen Schnettler 32:52
so cool. I love that you guys are together there. Across the ocean. Yeah,

Michele Hansen 32:56
it's cool. And you know, actually, I think I accidentally manifested this week because I sent out a newsletter literally yesterday, like it was about like, how to get good feedback over emails, like basically when you don't have time to interview like, what can you send people for text? Yeah, or, you know, like an email, not like texting, right. And I wrote and I was like, I just really don't have that much time to do interviews lately. And it kind of makes me sad and like, because it'll be like, oh, like somebody can do one. But then it turns out they're in California. And as we have experienced, it's really tough to find an overlap. And then I have to on Monday, like I think I accidentally manifested nicely. I am super pumped about my accidental manifestation. Yes, I'm here for it. But speaking of socializing, I feel like doing should thank our software socialites. And so we want to give a huge thanks to all of our listeners who become software socialites and support our show.

Huge thanks to all of our listeners who’ve become Software Socialites and support our show! You can become a supporter for $10 a month or $100 a year at

Chris from Chipper CI
The Daringly Handsome Kevin Griffin
And Mike from Gently Used Domains, who has a nice personality
Dave from Recut
Max of OnlineOrNot
Stefan from Talk to Stefan
Brendan Andrade of Bright Bits
Team Tuple
Alex Hillman from The Tiny MBA
Ramy from
Jane and Benedikt from Userlist
Kendall Morgan
Ruben Gamez of SignWell
Corey Haines of SwipeWell
Mike Wade of Crowd Sentry
Nate Ritter of Room Steals
Anna Maste of Subscribe Sense
Geoff Roberts from Outseta
Justin Jackson, MegaMaker
Jack Ellis and Paul Jarvis from Fathom Analytics
Matthew from Appointment Reminder
Andrew Culver at Bullet Train
John Kostor
Alex of Corso Systems
Richard from Stunning
Josh,the annoyingly pragmatic founder
Ben from Consent Kit
John from Credo and EditorNinja
Cam Sloan

Michael Koper of Nusii Proposals

Chris from Urlbox
Caeli of Tosslet
Greg Park from TraitLab
Adam from Rails Autoscale
Lana and Alex from Recapsy
Joe Masilotti of
Proud MaMa from Oplnet, LLC
Anna from Kradl
Moncef from Ruby on Mac
Steve of Be Inclusive
Simon Bennett of SnapShooter Backups
Josh Smith of
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Chris of
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Arvid Kahl
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Jessica Malnik
Damian Moore of Audio Audit Podcast Checker
Eldon from NodleStudios

Mitchell Davis from RecruitKit

Thank you, everyone. Thank you, everyone. And oh, I guess Oh, we probably say. So since we are going to be conferencing and stuff the next few weeks, we are going to have some friends coming by. We are not going to do tell us your founder life story things because a couple of you have said that you find that boring, so we're not doing that. So we're gonna have people on our show and talk about ourselves. I don't know we're not we're not gonna talk about.

Colleen Schnettler 36:04
It's fine. No one's listening. It's good.

Michele Hansen 36:06
It'll be good. It'll be it'll be people you know from Twitter. It'll be fun. Okay, bye bye for now. Oh, my goodness.

Creators and Guests

Colleen Schnettler
Colleen Schnettler
Co-Founder of Refine, Founder of Simple File Upload
Michele Hansen
Michele Hansen
Co-Founder of Geocodio & Author of Deploy Empathy
Cory Stine
Cory Stine
Audio Editor
2022, Software Social